Soul Sleep Part 2


I assumed I was done with soul sleep when I finished my article on the SDA.

Incidentally, Nobody who was SDA ever challenged the first point of my articles. As a matter of fact, they recieved zero challenges.

Until a gentleman who is SDA tried emailing me, and made his first point, and doggeldly refused to give ground despite my citing several passages of Scripture, and asking him point blank 3 times if he was SDA. He simply kept repeating point one. I should put his email exchange online, with his name and email address redacted, because they’re such a classic case of someone in a cult repeating their pet doctrine ad nauseum when you defeat their argument right out of the gate.

I kind of feel like that now. I’ve met TWO Christians who believe in soul sleep. I gave the first one 2 Cor 5 as I described it yesterday. That christian simply repeated herself. Okay, I can see that you chose your doctrines, and you’re not going to let inconvenient things like, I don’t know, Scripture change your mind.

The second one actually had scriptural reasons why she believed in soul sleep – except it was 2 Cor. 5! She moved the “Rather” into the second half of the verse, and triumphantly pointed out Paul was saying “I would RATHER be with the Lord, but I can’t, because we sleep!”

I immediately asked, “you checked this against Luke 16?”

Two weeks later she simply repeated the argument, and said she hadn’t read anything in the Bible to change her mind.

So, the answer to that would be – no, she never checked it against Luke 16.

This is the problem we run into while contending for the faith. Sometimes, we have to answer other Christians who’ve fallen for the doctrines of devils. You can’t answer a Christian the same way you’d answer a Mormon or Roman Catholic apologist. A fellow Christian is someone who you answer more gently. I was listening to a sermon yesterday in which a missiionary to cults was explaining how to answer mormons (because I’m still not happy with my exchanges with the Mormons!), in which it was pointed out there are two kinds of Mormons – those who fon’t know they’re in a cult, and those who do know and continue anyway.

It’s like Messianics – those who don’t know they’re in a cult, and those that do, but continue anyway.

So, let’s look at other verses that answer soul sleep.

SDA and other soul sleep believers will sometimes break one of the cardinal rules of bible interpretation by citing Ecclesiastes.

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)

We have to be wary when citing Ecclesiastes, which is a book of fleshly wisdom. It’s like quoting from Job, where 3/4’s of the doctrines espoused there are in error, and God finally answers with His wisdom.

The answer to that is the very next verse!

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. 7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works. Ecclesiastes 9:5-7 (KJV)

The understanding of Ecclesiastes, as in a couple of the psalms, contrasts living, where one has your only chances to earn rewards for heaven, and the state of the physical body after death.

AS for the soul… let’s look at Ecclesiastes!

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV)

Oh! So, the soul goes back to… God!

One pf the points that was raised was that none have ascended save the Son of Man – Jesus. None have seen the Father except Jesus.

So the soul sleep in the grave. That’s why we have the Rapture, so the Lord can wake the dead!

That’s a completely erroneous conclusion based upon – I have to say it – tunnel vision and isogesis. Does the speaker forget that Paul arose and went to heaven – whether in the body or not he could not say???

18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them. 19 Blessed be the Lord, who daily loadeth us with benefits, even the God of our salvation. Selah. 20 He that is our God is the God of salvation; and unto GOD the Lord belong the issues from death. Psalm 68:18-20 (KJV)

This one was forgotten about.

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV)

This teaches the understanding that before the death of Christ, the dead were in two places – Paradise (Abraham’s bosom) and Hell. Both were deep in the earth, and both were apparently right next to each other. The dead could see one another, talk to one another. But Luke 16 reveals there was a great gulf fixed between the dead, and Abraham and Lazarus were unable to cross and rescue the rich man, who was in torments.

Ephesians 4 and Psalm 68 teach us that Jesus Christ, after He died, went into Abraham’s Bosom, and took those awaiting, and “Ascended on high”, bringing them to heaven. No man HAD seen the Father but the son, and no man had ascended save the Son – but that ended in AD 30. Now, instead of journeying DOWN when a believer dies, we ascend into Heaven.

And Ephesians also speaks of the rewards. That’s great if you get gifts and rewards while you’re unaware of them and sleeping in the grave! Clearly, we are to be awake and aware to receive them.

Paul said, “to be absent from the body is to be Present with THE LORD”. This means you are in the Lord’s presence!

20 And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son? 21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child’s soul come into him again. 22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived. 1 Kings 17:20-22 (KJV)

29 And he charged them, and said unto them, I am to be gathered unto my people: bury me with my fathers in the cave that is in the field of Ephron the Hittite, Genesis 49:29 (KJV) 10 And also all that generation were gathered unto their fathers: and there arose another generation after them, which knew not the LORD, nor yet the works which he had done for Israel. Judges 2:10 (KJV) 20 Behold therefore, I will gather thee unto thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered into thy grave in peace; and thine eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place. And they brought the king word again. 2 Kings 22:20 (KJV) 28 Behold, I will gather thee to thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered to thy grave in peace, neither shall thine eyes see all the evil that I will bring upon this place, and upon the inhabitants of the same. So they brought the king word again. 2 Chronicles 34:28 (KJV)

If death is a sleep, then this creates problems. Lazarus came forth, the child;s soul came into him again, the righteous are gathered unto their fathers.

Sounds like a journey. You have to be aware to be in a journey. Otherwise – you’re aware of nothing. you know nothing. The Bible would refer to this as “thou shalt sleep and awaken on the last day.”

If the Bible describes death as a journey, we should as well. Jacob and the other Old Testament saints describe being “gathered unto their fathers”. This means their fathers will be aware – and they will be as well! – that they are together. A journey, unto my fathers, willl be with me, I will go to him…. The Bible uses this language. “Bury me next to my wife” means one thing, but “was gathered unto his fathers” says something completely different! They are together, meaning they are aware of each other.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 1:5-7 (KJV)

The final point is, there is a great number of people present in heaven throughout Revelation. A great number. And they are all aware.

the very presence of them in Heaven contradicts soul sleep. the very fact they cast their crowns on the glassy sea, and cry out praises to God, and even beseech God for vengeance on those who killed them! – all speak to the dead being aware.

We derive our doctrines from the Bible. We read them, compare them diligently against each other. WE derive no doctrine from unclear verses, but rather, from clear verses first, and unlcear verses then shed additional light. But when we read many, many verses describing the dead being aware, and four or five unclear verses – we go by the more clear and obvious verses first.

So why the unclear verses?

They shed additional light. The very verses that the cults misunderstand help us to differentiate between breathing and soul, between the state of the flesh and the state of the soul.

Read your Bible. Study your Bible. Take it literally. Compare scripture with scripture. Clear verses are taken first, and unclear second.

A good warning sign is this – if al of Christianity reads their Bible and says “a” and you read it and it says “B” – be careful. Start studying. Compare. Let the Bible choose your doctrine, and not the other way around.

Soul Sleep Refuted


I thought I’d deal with this one again, since this one keeps popping up.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 2 Corinthians 5:6 (KJV)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV)

Now, I’ve got to deal with 2 Corinthians 5:8 word by word, as I actually had someone cite this verse to PROVE soul sleep, which absolutely dumbfounded me as the worst case whatsoever of Biblical Isogesis I have truly ever seen.

The first thing we do is… read the verses.

Okay, verse 6 says if we are absent from the Lord we are present in the body. You can’t be in Heaven and on earth at the same time unless you’re Jesus Christ.

Looking at verse 8, it seems to contrast verse 6, unless I’m really missing something.

To be absent from the Lord is to be present with the body. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

That’s what I’m getting, aren’t you?

Well, not soul Sleep advocates.

THey see this as Paul saying, “i would rather be present with the Lord, but it’s impossible, so I won’t.”

Okay, it’s time to open our Textus Receptus now! Going to Accordance, I looked this up. Here it is.

θαρροῦμεν δέ, καὶ εὐδοκοῦμεν μᾶλλον ἐκδημῆσαι ἐκ τοῦ σώματος, καὶ ἐνδημῆσαι πρὸς τὸν Κύριον.

“Uh, I don’t read Greek. What’s it say?”

You do know I’m teaching Greek, right? If you’d started in December, you’d be up to snuff by now!

Anyway, here it is parsed. Parsing, in this case, really robs us of our major tools, which is tense-voice-mood. But I’ll get back to that.

We are confident G2292 θαῤῥέω tharrheo

I say and G1161 δέ de

– G2532 καί kai

willing G2106 εὐδοκέω eudokeo

rather G3123 μᾶλλον mallon

to be absent G1553 ἐκδημέω ekdemeo

from G1537 ἐκ, ἐξ ek, ex

the body G4983 σῶμα soma

and G2532 καί kai

to be present G1736 ἐνδημέω endemeo

with G4314 πρός pros

the Lord G2962 κύριος kurios

Ready? Here’s the analyzsis. And.. if you were reading in in context in the English, you’d have gotten all this!

Confident and Willing are linked by Greek tense. θαρροῦμεν δέ, καὶ εὐδοκοῦμεν oumen and oumen. They are linked by Greek tense, which we see in the suffix.

ἐκδημῆσαι and ἐνδημῆσαι are linked by tense. Absent and present.

Paul cannot be saying, “I would rather be present, but I can’t.” The construction of this is contrasting – just like in the English – absent and present, τοῦ σώματος and τὸν Κύριον, from the body and with the Lord.

Here’s what it would boil down to – exactly what is written in the King James Bible. To be at home in the body is to be absent from the Lord. While Paul is with the Corinthians, he is not physically with Jesus Christ, which is where he’d rather be. I get that from reading verse 6. Anyone disagree so far?

Paul then shows, under the direction of the Holy Spirit, that he is willing and confident to be absent from the body amd present with the LOrd.

Next we turn to punctuation. The verse is split in two by two marked thoughts. The thought process is shown by the very punctuation of the King James.

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV)

the word rather is in the first half of the sentnence. If the Bible had meant to say “I would rather be with the Lord”…

…then the verse would say that. The word “rather” would be in the second half of the verse and connected to “present”, and not connected to “absent”.

To say this is to separate 5:8 from 5:6, and the apparent contrast and the entire context.

16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. 17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; 18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:16-18 (KJV)

1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. 2 Corinthians 5:1-11 (KJV)

The entire context of the verse (rule 1, read the Bible and accept what it says, rule 2, read in context, rule 3 compare spiritual things with spiritual) is that if we die, we have a place prepared for us (verse 1). We cannot wait to be there, because when we are there we will be clothed in immortality and glory (verses 2-4). We have been given the down paymentof the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of eternal life (verse 5). While we are at home in the body, we are absent from the LOrd – but we walk by faith in eternal life, not by any demonstrateable proof. Thus we have confidence and are willing to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. (verse 8) Thus, we labor whether in the body or not to be accepted of the Lord.

WAIT!

Verse 9 of itself crushes the soul sleep argument. 9 “Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.”

How can you labor while you are absent (dead) if you are UNAWARE IN THE GRAVE?

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Luke 16:19-31 (KJV)

The entire soul sleep argument is put aside once and for all reading Luke 16.

Lazarus and the rich man are dead. Abraham is dead.

This is not a parable, even though every commentary seems to call it that. David Cloud points out that Abraham’s name and Lazarus’s name are mentioned. The only name not mentioned is the rich man.

Names are never mentioned in parables. Luke 16 is a real account.

THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS. Some claim the story in Lk. 16:19-31 about the rich man in Hell is a parable. This is usually claimed by those who deny that Hell is a place of eternal torment, or by those who believe in Soul Sleep. The Seventh-day Adventists are an example of this. They claim that the fire and other descriptions of Hell are not real. We know that this was not a parable for the following reasons: (1) Christ used the proper names of two people, Lazarus and Abraham, and this He never did with parables. (2) The description of Hell in this passage corresponds with Christ’s descriptions of Hell in other passages (Mk. 9:44,46,48). (3) There is no indication that this is a parable. It is not called a parable and does not have any of the key expressions associated with true parables (such as “like,” “as,” “like unto,” or “likened unto.” (David Cloud, Way of Life Encyclopedia)

 

39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Luke 23:39-43 (KJV)

If the soul sleeps until the Rapture… how then was the thief on the cross with Jesus Christ in Paradise?

The Bible teaching on this is plain. Upon death (the separation of the body from the spirit)… we go to Heaven… or Hell.

We are aware. The souls in Heaven rejoice and praise God.

9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever, 10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:9-11 (KJV)

Those in Hell raise their eyes, crying out in torment and agony.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:10 (KJV)

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. Luke 16:24 (KJV)

Soul Sleep is not Biblical.

Seventh Day Adventism Answered 20


Some random questions for any member of the SDA…

What authority gave Ellen G. White the authority to lead the SDA church? Why did no one object to her assuming control?

Does the SDA church deny today that they teach that Jesus is the archangel Michael?

Do they deny that they are indeed the authors of the Jehovah’s Witnesses heresies?

there are major errors associated with the SDA’s. So many in fact that they conflicgt with orthodox christian doctrines in areas of theology, christology, pneumatology, soteriology, hamartiology, angelology…. almost every area of doctrine.

I would submit that the differences remain so great that the SDA cannot be considered Christian, but rather a pagan religion or a cult. Loosely organized and poorly controlled, but still a cult.

What test prophecy did Ellen G. White give before the Adventists accepted her as a prophet?

Error led to the SDa accepting Ellen G as a prophet, this in turn led to accepting a host of doctrinal errors.

SDA denies today that they originally did not believe Jesus is God.

Ellen G. White accepted the Trinity, but her husband James White did not.

Is this not a conflict? If she truly was a prophet of God as James White taught others, then would he not have simply accepted what she taught on this issue?

And is this not a conflict that she claimed (in violation of Scripture) to speak with him and be guided by him after he died? We know that any who deny the Trinity will not inherit the kingdom of God. So, either she was a false prophet from the start, as I have maintained from the start, or the James white manifestation was a demon. In that latter case, the writings of Ellen G. White cannot be the equal of Scripture, nor can they complete them as the SDA maintain.

At what point was she misled by a demonic apparition? If she was a prophet, why did she not realize he was a demon?

Why would she speak to the dead, when if she was a prophet she would have known that this was forbidden by Scripture?

If she was mistaken, she cannot be a prophet. If she was lying, she cannot be a prophet. If she was misled, she cannot be a prophet. The only hope for the SDA church now is to deny that the spirit of James White came to Ellen G. White after his death and descent into Hell, and claim the stories were forged. In which case we would have a different problem then – which of her writings are authentic and which are forgeries???

doctrinal error leads to doctrinal error. If the seed is corrupt, so too will the fully grown plant from that seed.

If William Miller was wrong right from the start, so too will everything that grew out of it, including the SDA, which doctrinally is as full of error as Miller’s other offspring the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Seventh Day Adventism Answered 11


We’ve been looking at the doctrine of the SDA, in a quote from their own statement of faith. This is one reason I urge you examine someone’s statement of faith, so you know what they really believe. Don’t skim it – there’s enough proof here that the SDA is a cult and teaching heresy, that NO christian should be believing that the SDA is a form of Christianity.

From the SDA website…

In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent.

We talked yesterday about the dead who are “asleep in Christ”. I’d given a lot of proof… but let’s look at the first resurrection.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Revelation 20:4 (KJV)

1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. 3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. 4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. Revelation 19:1-4 (KJV)

Okay, now… if Rev. 20:4 is the first resurrection, then Revelation 19 (this is complicated, pay attention…) must come before that.

Which means that the dead are aware.

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Revelation 7:9-14 (KJV)

These people here are not Raptured saints… these are people from the Tribulation, who have been martyred. They’re dead. And they appear to be singing, and rejoicing. I don’t know about you, but I very rarely sing or rejoice in my sleep.

So… they’re aware. We talked yesterday about Luke 16 and the rich Man in Hell. I gave a lot of quotes about Hell, showing that those therein go into torment.

You kind of need to be aware to be tormented.

15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do. 16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy? 17 And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David: 18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day. 19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines. 1 Samuel 28:15-19 (KJV)

Saul would need to be aware in order to be with Samuel. Here’s the question you might have missed… How would Samuel have known about Saul’s deeds if he’d been unaware?

We’ve got far too many Scriptures we’ve examined to believe that we’re unaware, just dead in our graves.” The wicked burn in Hell, but they don’t know about it… and after a year vanish away.”

Yeah. That’s illogical, and contradicts waaaay too many Scriptures.

8 Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people. Genesis 25:8 (KJV)

But he had no idea, because he was unaware?

18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin. Genesis 35:18 (KJV)

She was departing. Scripture shows death as a journey. Abraham was GATHERED. Rachel was DEPARTING. Saul and his sons will BE WITH Saul. Saul was BROUGHT UP.

13 And when thou hast seen it, thou also shalt be gathered unto thy people, as Aaron thy brother was gathered. Numbers 27:13 (KJV)

Aaron and Moses were GATHERED unto thy people.

But they didn’t know it, and it was no consolation, because they were unaware.

Huh? It makes no sense. It contradicts the plain meaning of Scripture. It stands Scripture on its head.

1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Matthew 17:1-3 (KJV)

They seem pretty aware to me.

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14 (KJV)

“bring with Him…” that would mean the dead are in heaven. Now, I don’t know about you, but I don’t think Angels are stepping over dead souls in Heaven, trying to avoid stepping on people. The souls of the dead are aware. Those in Hell are weeping in sorrow or gnashing their teeth in rage as they burn in endless torment, and those in heaven are aware, singing, rejoicing in being with Christ.

1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 (KJV)

This is of course the verse that shatters soul sleep once for all…. to be absent in the body is to be present with the Lord.