Ways in which Fundamentalists are discriminated against


I’m often astounded when I hear Evangelicals call themselves Fundamentalist. They have no idea that in many ways, they are so NOT Fundamentalist, it’s crazy.

But what I see is the rabid anti-Fundamentalism sweeping Christianity – the same ideology the Lord decries in the letter to the Laodecian church in Revelation 3. “Be lukewarm, like us!” They cry. And many of them resort to calling Fundamentalists “Pharisees.” Good to know that not only are you Biblically ignorant and PROUD of it – but you’re also Anti-Semitic.

A Pharisee is an enemy of Jesus Christ. A Fundamentalist is not. Fundamentalists stand for the Christian faith, a literal belief in the Bible – and usually God’s Bible, not rejected and heretical texts which the unBelieving and unSaved “scholars” prefer.

So, let’s say you discover overnight, that the Bible is God’s word, inspired, inerrant, preserved. Now, there’s a lot of “Christians” who call the Bible “Inspired” the same way you’d call Mozart’s music “inspired”. When I say inspired, I mean, we believe God dictated the Bible to men who wrote it down.  Many “Christians” claim Fundamentalists don’t believe that anymore.

Huh.

No, that’s an article of faith that Fundamentalists will not let go of. When they say, “Luke wrote the book of Luke”, they’re saying “It might have errors because Luke wrote it, and Luke was a man.” I say instead, “God wrote it and gave Luke the words to write down. It has no errors – God wrote it.”

So, if you became a Fundamentalist, you’d find yourself having problems with a LOT of Christian materials. Commentaries that question God’s word. Bible dictionaries that try  to present the unSaved “Scholar’s” view of things – which usually is their wish or pet theory being passed off as truth to unsuspecting Christians. You’d have to reject a lot of Greek handbooks, because many of them ascribe to “Textual Criticism”, which is Atheism passing itself off as Christians. If you’re trying to tell me Mr. Aland or Mr. Metzger are saved, you’re going to have to cite some serious evidence, because based on their testimonies, I’m going to come out and say – no, they can’t be.

You’re going to have trouble with a lot of Sermon starter books, that have little “tidbits of the Greek” because they push – again – a heretical manuscript instead of God’s Bible. You’re going to end up rejecting most materials on Revelation because – let’s face it – most of them are written by persons who allegorize the Book of Revelation, or accept the heretical manuscripts instead of God’s Bible. I have a commentary on Revelation that seems really good, but I’m having to wade through a lot of “the scholars now say…”. I’m sorry Mr. Seiss, but had you any idea they were lying to you?

You’re going to have a lot of trouble with pre-printed Sunday School materials. I’ve found so many elementary doctrinal errors and “Scholars say” references, I don’t know what to do.

You’ll grit your teeth over the way people praise Billy Graham, ignoring his outright heresies. Yes, he used to be great. But once he started promoting Baptismal Regeneration, there’s a problem.

So… is this Hypocrisy? No. I don’t quote from heretical greek texts. I quote from God’s Bible. When I refer to the Greek, I refer to the Textus Receptus. When I look at “The hebrew”, I’m looking at the Hebrew Masoretic Txt, the Ben Chayim text. When I give my opinion on the Bible, it is “The Bible says…”

So, I’m not a “Pharisee.” I promote the Bible as the word of God, not the Talmud. I promote only one way to heaven through Jesus Christ, certainly not a trait associated with Pharisees.

So… what does that leave the people who question the word of God? Who promote other ways to be saved? Who refuse to disassociate with heretics and false teachers?

What does that imply about them?

Soul Sleep Part 2


I assumed I was done with soul sleep when I finished my article on the SDA.

Incidentally, Nobody who was SDA ever challenged the first point of my articles. As a matter of fact, they recieved zero challenges.

Until a gentleman who is SDA tried emailing me, and made his first point, and doggeldly refused to give ground despite my citing several passages of Scripture, and asking him point blank 3 times if he was SDA. He simply kept repeating point one. I should put his email exchange online, with his name and email address redacted, because they’re such a classic case of someone in a cult repeating their pet doctrine ad nauseum when you defeat their argument right out of the gate.

I kind of feel like that now. I’ve met TWO Christians who believe in soul sleep. I gave the first one 2 Cor 5 as I described it yesterday. That christian simply repeated herself. Okay, I can see that you chose your doctrines, and you’re not going to let inconvenient things like, I don’t know, Scripture change your mind.

The second one actually had scriptural reasons why she believed in soul sleep – except it was 2 Cor. 5! She moved the “Rather” into the second half of the verse, and triumphantly pointed out Paul was saying “I would RATHER be with the Lord, but I can’t, because we sleep!”

I immediately asked, “you checked this against Luke 16?”

Two weeks later she simply repeated the argument, and said she hadn’t read anything in the Bible to change her mind.

So, the answer to that would be – no, she never checked it against Luke 16.

This is the problem we run into while contending for the faith. Sometimes, we have to answer other Christians who’ve fallen for the doctrines of devils. You can’t answer a Christian the same way you’d answer a Mormon or Roman Catholic apologist. A fellow Christian is someone who you answer more gently. I was listening to a sermon yesterday in which a missiionary to cults was explaining how to answer mormons (because I’m still not happy with my exchanges with the Mormons!), in which it was pointed out there are two kinds of Mormons – those who fon’t know they’re in a cult, and those who do know and continue anyway.

It’s like Messianics – those who don’t know they’re in a cult, and those that do, but continue anyway.

So, let’s look at other verses that answer soul sleep.

SDA and other soul sleep believers will sometimes break one of the cardinal rules of bible interpretation by citing Ecclesiastes.

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)

We have to be wary when citing Ecclesiastes, which is a book of fleshly wisdom. It’s like quoting from Job, where 3/4’s of the doctrines espoused there are in error, and God finally answers with His wisdom.

The answer to that is the very next verse!

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. 7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works. Ecclesiastes 9:5-7 (KJV)

The understanding of Ecclesiastes, as in a couple of the psalms, contrasts living, where one has your only chances to earn rewards for heaven, and the state of the physical body after death.

AS for the soul… let’s look at Ecclesiastes!

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV)

Oh! So, the soul goes back to… God!

One pf the points that was raised was that none have ascended save the Son of Man – Jesus. None have seen the Father except Jesus.

So the soul sleep in the grave. That’s why we have the Rapture, so the Lord can wake the dead!

That’s a completely erroneous conclusion based upon – I have to say it – tunnel vision and isogesis. Does the speaker forget that Paul arose and went to heaven – whether in the body or not he could not say???

18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them. 19 Blessed be the Lord, who daily loadeth us with benefits, even the God of our salvation. Selah. 20 He that is our God is the God of salvation; and unto GOD the Lord belong the issues from death. Psalm 68:18-20 (KJV)

This one was forgotten about.

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV)

This teaches the understanding that before the death of Christ, the dead were in two places – Paradise (Abraham’s bosom) and Hell. Both were deep in the earth, and both were apparently right next to each other. The dead could see one another, talk to one another. But Luke 16 reveals there was a great gulf fixed between the dead, and Abraham and Lazarus were unable to cross and rescue the rich man, who was in torments.

Ephesians 4 and Psalm 68 teach us that Jesus Christ, after He died, went into Abraham’s Bosom, and took those awaiting, and “Ascended on high”, bringing them to heaven. No man HAD seen the Father but the son, and no man had ascended save the Son – but that ended in AD 30. Now, instead of journeying DOWN when a believer dies, we ascend into Heaven.

And Ephesians also speaks of the rewards. That’s great if you get gifts and rewards while you’re unaware of them and sleeping in the grave! Clearly, we are to be awake and aware to receive them.

Paul said, “to be absent from the body is to be Present with THE LORD”. This means you are in the Lord’s presence!

20 And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son? 21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child’s soul come into him again. 22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived. 1 Kings 17:20-22 (KJV)

29 And he charged them, and said unto them, I am to be gathered unto my people: bury me with my fathers in the cave that is in the field of Ephron the Hittite, Genesis 49:29 (KJV) 10 And also all that generation were gathered unto their fathers: and there arose another generation after them, which knew not the LORD, nor yet the works which he had done for Israel. Judges 2:10 (KJV) 20 Behold therefore, I will gather thee unto thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered into thy grave in peace; and thine eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place. And they brought the king word again. 2 Kings 22:20 (KJV) 28 Behold, I will gather thee to thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered to thy grave in peace, neither shall thine eyes see all the evil that I will bring upon this place, and upon the inhabitants of the same. So they brought the king word again. 2 Chronicles 34:28 (KJV)

If death is a sleep, then this creates problems. Lazarus came forth, the child;s soul came into him again, the righteous are gathered unto their fathers.

Sounds like a journey. You have to be aware to be in a journey. Otherwise – you’re aware of nothing. you know nothing. The Bible would refer to this as “thou shalt sleep and awaken on the last day.”

If the Bible describes death as a journey, we should as well. Jacob and the other Old Testament saints describe being “gathered unto their fathers”. This means their fathers will be aware – and they will be as well! – that they are together. A journey, unto my fathers, willl be with me, I will go to him…. The Bible uses this language. “Bury me next to my wife” means one thing, but “was gathered unto his fathers” says something completely different! They are together, meaning they are aware of each other.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 1:5-7 (KJV)

The final point is, there is a great number of people present in heaven throughout Revelation. A great number. And they are all aware.

the very presence of them in Heaven contradicts soul sleep. the very fact they cast their crowns on the glassy sea, and cry out praises to God, and even beseech God for vengeance on those who killed them! – all speak to the dead being aware.

We derive our doctrines from the Bible. We read them, compare them diligently against each other. WE derive no doctrine from unclear verses, but rather, from clear verses first, and unlcear verses then shed additional light. But when we read many, many verses describing the dead being aware, and four or five unclear verses – we go by the more clear and obvious verses first.

So why the unclear verses?

They shed additional light. The very verses that the cults misunderstand help us to differentiate between breathing and soul, between the state of the flesh and the state of the soul.

Read your Bible. Study your Bible. Take it literally. Compare scripture with scripture. Clear verses are taken first, and unclear second.

A good warning sign is this – if al of Christianity reads their Bible and says “a” and you read it and it says “B” – be careful. Start studying. Compare. Let the Bible choose your doctrine, and not the other way around.

Soul Sleep Refuted


I thought I’d deal with this one again, since this one keeps popping up.

6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 2 Corinthians 5:6 (KJV)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV)

Now, I’ve got to deal with 2 Corinthians 5:8 word by word, as I actually had someone cite this verse to PROVE soul sleep, which absolutely dumbfounded me as the worst case whatsoever of Biblical Isogesis I have truly ever seen.

The first thing we do is… read the verses.

Okay, verse 6 says if we are absent from the Lord we are present in the body. You can’t be in Heaven and on earth at the same time unless you’re Jesus Christ.

Looking at verse 8, it seems to contrast verse 6, unless I’m really missing something.

To be absent from the Lord is to be present with the body. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

That’s what I’m getting, aren’t you?

Well, not soul Sleep advocates.

THey see this as Paul saying, “i would rather be present with the Lord, but it’s impossible, so I won’t.”

Okay, it’s time to open our Textus Receptus now! Going to Accordance, I looked this up. Here it is.

θαρροῦμεν δέ, καὶ εὐδοκοῦμεν μᾶλλον ἐκδημῆσαι ἐκ τοῦ σώματος, καὶ ἐνδημῆσαι πρὸς τὸν Κύριον.

“Uh, I don’t read Greek. What’s it say?”

You do know I’m teaching Greek, right? If you’d started in December, you’d be up to snuff by now!

Anyway, here it is parsed. Parsing, in this case, really robs us of our major tools, which is tense-voice-mood. But I’ll get back to that.

We are confident G2292 θαῤῥέω tharrheo

I say and G1161 δέ de

– G2532 καί kai

willing G2106 εὐδοκέω eudokeo

rather G3123 μᾶλλον mallon

to be absent G1553 ἐκδημέω ekdemeo

from G1537 ἐκ, ἐξ ek, ex

the body G4983 σῶμα soma

and G2532 καί kai

to be present G1736 ἐνδημέω endemeo

with G4314 πρός pros

the Lord G2962 κύριος kurios

Ready? Here’s the analyzsis. And.. if you were reading in in context in the English, you’d have gotten all this!

Confident and Willing are linked by Greek tense. θαρροῦμεν δέ, καὶ εὐδοκοῦμεν oumen and oumen. They are linked by Greek tense, which we see in the suffix.

ἐκδημῆσαι and ἐνδημῆσαι are linked by tense. Absent and present.

Paul cannot be saying, “I would rather be present, but I can’t.” The construction of this is contrasting – just like in the English – absent and present, τοῦ σώματος and τὸν Κύριον, from the body and with the Lord.

Here’s what it would boil down to – exactly what is written in the King James Bible. To be at home in the body is to be absent from the Lord. While Paul is with the Corinthians, he is not physically with Jesus Christ, which is where he’d rather be. I get that from reading verse 6. Anyone disagree so far?

Paul then shows, under the direction of the Holy Spirit, that he is willing and confident to be absent from the body amd present with the LOrd.

Next we turn to punctuation. The verse is split in two by two marked thoughts. The thought process is shown by the very punctuation of the King James.

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV)

the word rather is in the first half of the sentnence. If the Bible had meant to say “I would rather be with the Lord”…

…then the verse would say that. The word “rather” would be in the second half of the verse and connected to “present”, and not connected to “absent”.

To say this is to separate 5:8 from 5:6, and the apparent contrast and the entire context.

16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. 17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; 18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal. 2 Corinthians 4:16-18 (KJV)

1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. 2 Corinthians 5:1-11 (KJV)

The entire context of the verse (rule 1, read the Bible and accept what it says, rule 2, read in context, rule 3 compare spiritual things with spiritual) is that if we die, we have a place prepared for us (verse 1). We cannot wait to be there, because when we are there we will be clothed in immortality and glory (verses 2-4). We have been given the down paymentof the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of eternal life (verse 5). While we are at home in the body, we are absent from the LOrd – but we walk by faith in eternal life, not by any demonstrateable proof. Thus we have confidence and are willing to be absent from the body and present with the Lord. (verse 8) Thus, we labor whether in the body or not to be accepted of the Lord.

WAIT!

Verse 9 of itself crushes the soul sleep argument. 9 “Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.”

How can you labor while you are absent (dead) if you are UNAWARE IN THE GRAVE?

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Luke 16:19-31 (KJV)

The entire soul sleep argument is put aside once and for all reading Luke 16.

Lazarus and the rich man are dead. Abraham is dead.

This is not a parable, even though every commentary seems to call it that. David Cloud points out that Abraham’s name and Lazarus’s name are mentioned. The only name not mentioned is the rich man.

Names are never mentioned in parables. Luke 16 is a real account.

THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS. Some claim the story in Lk. 16:19-31 about the rich man in Hell is a parable. This is usually claimed by those who deny that Hell is a place of eternal torment, or by those who believe in Soul Sleep. The Seventh-day Adventists are an example of this. They claim that the fire and other descriptions of Hell are not real. We know that this was not a parable for the following reasons: (1) Christ used the proper names of two people, Lazarus and Abraham, and this He never did with parables. (2) The description of Hell in this passage corresponds with Christ’s descriptions of Hell in other passages (Mk. 9:44,46,48). (3) There is no indication that this is a parable. It is not called a parable and does not have any of the key expressions associated with true parables (such as “like,” “as,” “like unto,” or “likened unto.” (David Cloud, Way of Life Encyclopedia)

 

39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us. 40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Luke 23:39-43 (KJV)

If the soul sleeps until the Rapture… how then was the thief on the cross with Jesus Christ in Paradise?

The Bible teaching on this is plain. Upon death (the separation of the body from the spirit)… we go to Heaven… or Hell.

We are aware. The souls in Heaven rejoice and praise God.

9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever, 10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:9-11 (KJV)

Those in Hell raise their eyes, crying out in torment and agony.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:10 (KJV)

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. Luke 16:24 (KJV)

Soul Sleep is not Biblical.

Signs of the Times


Evangelicals have begun to oppose the Bible.

Evangelicals have begun to link arms with the unsaved.

Evangelicals are beginning to reject Fundamentalists, in favor of the unSaved, such as those who sprinkle babies and call it salvation. Such as Mormons. Such as Catholics.

We hear that over a billion people are Christians, and we assume that means people who understant “ye must be born again”.

While in Seminary, my teacher asked the rhetorical question of how many people were saved? He guessed 5%, and everyone in the class was scandalized.

I took the Operation World manual, and took their statistics. It was very simple. I took out all the denominations that assume you are predestined to be saved. Why? Because by the second generation, they are relying on their infant baptism as a sign of their “election”.

I took out all the Protestant denominations that believe that being baptized saves you.

I took out the Mormons.

I took out the Roman Catholics.

It left Charismatics and Baptists. I didn’t take out any of those numbers, because I was estimating a “fudge factor” of, “Some of those Protestants must have gotten saved despite their denominations’ stand”.

I ended up with 1.67%, if I recall correctly.

Right around 85 million people.

I did the statistics in reverse, and ended up with the same number. And now I’m thinking I was optimistic.

With that in mind, let’s look at the problem – Evangelicals prefer the company of all those people the Bible rules out as being saved.

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 1 John 2:15 (KJV)

1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 1 John 3:1 (KJV)

19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. John 15:19 (KJV)

The last verse is the bottom line. If you’re an Evangelical Christian, and you reject Fundamentalist as “pharisees”, and use phrases like “I don’t view the Bible as the fourth member of the Trinity”…

The Bible is saying you many not be saved.

Just saying.

A Biblical Examination of Pentecostalism #5


Last one for now! I’ll sneak some in later when nobody expects it.

Something I remember someone saying when I was attending a Messianic Synagogue (in the days before I was saved…)…

“Why have scientists never analyzed tongue speaking?”

Here’s the answer, some 20 years later: They have analyzed it many times. Each time they have disproved it.

Tongues. Technically known as Glossolalia.

Here’s an encounter I had with a co-worker, which I wrote about a few years ago.

Incidentally, someone at work wanted to argue with me. He brought up a radio show he’d heard about two Baptist pastors claiming we had the Bible all wrong. I’m glad they pointed it out – Godly men have been prayerfully studying the Bible all wrong for 2,000 years until these two jokers came along!

Anyway, the guy at work told me Baptists were wrong, because we don’t believe in speaking in tongues, and these two Baptist pastors were convinced we were wrong.

My response to him was to quote 1 Corinthians 12 – “Tongues will cease.”

He replied, “Well, that’s not for today.”

Wow, really? A Charismatic telling me tongues ceasing were not for today! I told him, “It says until that which is perfect is come. The Bible is described as perfect in the Psalms:

7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. Psalm 19:7 (KJV)

I was really trying to get out of the conversation – this kind of discussion is not permitted at work. But the fellow persisted.

“Well it also says that knowledge will cease. Do you know anything? If you do, then tongues are for today.”

I answered him patiently. “Will you know the Lord after the Millennium?”

He paused. “uhhh…. Yeah.”

“Then obviously we’re not sitting around in the eternity completely oblivious- that would describe death, not life. We’ll know the Lord, we’ll know the Gospel, we’ll know each other… So obviously this is not talking about knowledge as knowledge – this is talking about Word of Knowledge, the supernatural understanding of correct doctrine for the purpose of writing the New Testament – and that’s already written. That also covers the supernatural knowledge Peter showed with Ananias and Saphira.”

“Oh.” He shook his head. “Well, I haven’t studied it out.” That wasn’t quite true – he obviously had studied it to the point he thought he had a zinger that would stump me. That wasn’t the case. So he quickly got out of the conversation. Which was okay by me. If he wants to talk about it after work, excellent! During work… No. My employer does not permit it, and I honor that request.

With the understanding of Genesis, that tongues means languages Biblically, we see that supernatural manifestations of tongues was to speak in a language miraculously you did not know. The New Testament furthermore made the requirement that if you got the urge to suddenly speak in, say, Basque in the service, let the pastor know, and when permitted, speak. The requirement was that someone had to be there who was a native Basque speaker to understand it! This is what it means by “One to interpret”. If you wanted to speak in Basque, and had never learned it… But there was nobody there who spoke Basque… Then you should hold your tongue. God would bring that only if someone was there to interpret. This is a clear teaching of the New Testament.

What are tongues for?

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 1 Corinthians 14:22 (KJV)

This means if you stand up in a Charismatic church and begin speaking in other tongues, you are in effect claiming someone in that church body is not saved. Your speaking in tongues is for them. If they do not speak that language – then you quite simply wasted your time, and it was not of God that you spoke in that tongue.

If it was not of God that you spoke in tongues, then who was it of?

We go to the first verse listed by Charismatics…

1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. Acts 2:1-11 (KJV)

I’m not trying to paint a Libyan flag with the colors – but I wanted your eyes drawn to the very verses that discuss this. Each of the verses is in a different color to contrast them, and force the modern Bible reader into doing something that was common prior to the 20th century (reading one verse, or one thought at a time.)

I don’t know exactly the number of Pentacostal pastors who teach the two-tongue theory, and how many simply don’t differentiate. I attended a Charismatic church before I was saved (and I’ll be discussing this a lot as we go through this). My former pastor taught there was two different kinds of tongues, “Other tongues” and “unknown tongues”.

He would agree with me that “Speaking in other tongues” was – speaking in a language that you did not know, as supernatually enabled by the Holy Spirit. What he would not agree with me on, is that this gift is passed away, as the Bible said it would.

However, he advocated (consistent with most Pentacostals) that speaking in tongues also included “unknown” tongues, tongues that were not spoken on earth. Another name for this was “the tongues of angels”, speaking in a heavenly tongue.

While these terms are indeed used in the Bible, it is not an interpretation that can clearly be derived rom Scripture from context and usage. Indeed, the only usage of the few verses in the Bibles on this relatively unimportant gift all seem to be referencing the same thing, speaking in a language you don’t know.

I’ll digress briefly by telling you I remember a deacon in one of these churches (a Messianic “synagogue”) complaining why hasn’t anyone ever analyzed speaking in tongues so that it can be proven?

Getting back on topic, here’s the other verses on speaking in tongues. There’s not many.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. Acts 10:44-48 (KJV)

The last time, they were all Jews who spoke in tongues, in the presence of many unbelieving Jews. It was a sign for the unbelievers that God was with the 11 Apostles, and that truly everything they spoke about the Gospel was of God.

This time, Jews are still present. The people speaking this time are Gentiles. It is a sign that salvation is not limited to Jews. That may sound odd to today’s hearers, but it would have been a truly hot button topic back in those days.

1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7 And all the men were about twelve. Acts 19:1-7 (KJV)

That’s the last verse talking about speaking in tongues in the Bible, except for 1 Corinthians. I’ve already dealt with this one in detail.

Again, the question would be, who is there? All Jewish. This took place in relative proximity to a synagogue, as we see from verse 8:

8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. Acts 19:8 (KJV)

So, who do we have? Disciples of John (all Jewish), Paul… and in relative proximity to unbelieving Jews. Now the “Why” question. Why did they speak in tongues here?

for a sign to unbelieving Jews, and to all others, that God had called Paul to be an apostle. There is no record anywhere else in the Bible of anyone recieving the gift of tongues.

To say they continue today when they do not fit the definition, use, method or practice is inaccurate to say the least.

A Biblical Examination of Pentecostalism #4


One more after this!

Let’s go to Ernest Angely, for his defense of speaking in tongues from the Bible. The chronology is going to raise some eyebrows.

Ten years after Pentecost, the Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Ghost; the Holy Ghost also testified through them when He came in… (Acts 10:44-46). Twenty five years later we find some people receiving the same Holy Ghost in the same way. He took over their vocal organs and spoke in another tongue. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues (Acts 19:6) (https://www.ernestangley.org/tags/tag_entries/tag/Baptism+of+the+Holy+Ghost)

ten years plus twenty five years is thirty five years. I know, math is not my strong suite anymore (I used ta be really good at it) but I’m getting 35 years, even using a slide rule and a scientific calculator.

Acts runs from 30 AD to 60 AD.

I don’t know about you, but Ernest Angely is putting Acts 19 at 65 AD… five years after Acts was written! Acts ends abruptly as Paul is put to death before Luke continues writing. Why didn’t Luke write about Paul’s death? Easy one… the Holy Spirit stopped moving Luke to write after Paul reaches Rome.

Mr. Angely is off by about 9 years, according to Ramsey, and off by about 15 years by some other accounts that puts Paul’s missionary journeys earlier in time. I’ll go by the latter date and give Mr. Angely the benefit of the doubt.

The last Biblically recorded example of speaking in tongues is around 56 AD. After that, it vanishes from the earth.

There is no place in the Bible that tells us the method has been changed… (Ernest Angley)

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 1 Corinthians 13:8 (KJV)

There’s a verse in the Bible saying that tongues would cease. It was written in 55 AD. In 56 AD Paul witnesses to and converts disciples of John, and they speak in tongues. No mention is made of speaking in tongues after this. After 1 Corinthians, there is no tongues speaking in the Bible.

It ceased.

A Biblical Examination of Pentecostalism 3


Just a couple more, I promise.

Pentacostal Objection #2 – “What about all those people who were saved in Acts? Every one of them spoke in tongues afterwards?”

No. There are only three recorded times anyone spoke in tongues. And there is no record of those people speaking in tongues AFTER that.

The Phillipian Jailor did not speak in tongues after he was saved.

The Eunuch in the chariot did not speak in tongues.

Only the disciples of John, the Apostles themselves, and Cornelius the Centurion and his household. That was it.

There is no record of Cornelius speaking in tongues ever again.

Or the Apostles of John.

As a matter of fact, only Paul is recorded as pseaking in tongues after Acts. And then only during one of his first books, 1 Corinthians.

And its plain that Paul championed love and doctrine FAR above tongues speaking.

Pentacostal Objection #3

“The Bible says the sprit would testify and we will bear witness.”

Good point! How are you going to bear witness if you’re speaking in a language you don’t understand? And the person who you’re babbling at has no earthly idea what you’re saying?

19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. 1 Corinthians 14:19 (KJV)

Like, “Jesus died for your sins.”