Bible believing Christians know that the Rapture is portrayed in the Bible as being before the Tribulation. This position is called the Pre-trib Rapture. Pre meaning before, and the entire phrase meaning “We believe the Bible teaches that we go in the Rapture before the Tribulation comes.”
To believe this way is to differentiate between Christianity and Israel. To put it in the terms most of you use, this belief is to distinguish between “The Church” and Israel. I personally think it’s wrong to use the phrase “the Church” as if there was one invisible, universal church – the Bible does not make that generalization in that term. The Bible defines the church as a local gathering of born again, baptized believers.
The Bible does make that distinction in talking about the Kingdom of God. Where most people err is they substitute the phrase “The Church” where they should be using “the Kingdom.”
Anyway, getting back to the subject at hand….
It then stands to reason that if you believe in ANY OTHER kind of Rapture, you do not distinguish between “The Church” and Israel. You CANNOT read Revelation and make that distinction – and still think “The Church” goes through the tribulation.
How can I say that?
Well, as I’ve pointed out many times before (and nobody that’s ever tried to debate me on this has ever answered this fact…) the word “Church” is mentioned 20 times between Revelation 1:1 and Revelation 4:1. Then it simply disappears, and starts talking about “Saints”.
How do we define this? We don’t. We make the Bible define itself, something it does quite well if you pay attention.
The word Church is used 20 times from Rev. 1:1-4:1 as I mentioned before. Then it stops, and starts describing the scene in heaven. There’s a change in focus now. We were listening to Jesus Christ speak to the seven churches. then suddenly we have a narrative switch to Heaven, and the worship of God and the Lamb… when the Tribulation begins. Christ begins opening the seven seals, and judgment begins.
And towards the end of the seals, the scene switches back to earth.
And is talking about Jews.
Not Christians. Jews. Israel.
If you think that the 144,000 is Gentile Christians… you have committed a gross doctrinal error.
Anti-semitism (that’s bigotry and hatred, by the way) causes many Christians to err and assume that “The Church” replaces Israel. That Gentiles are now the Jew.
You can justify it, by taking verses out of context, and offering proof texts.
The issue remains the proper exegesis of Scripture. God says, you listen. God teaches, you learn. How do you do that? You started on the right path, by reading BOOKS of the Bible. Then you turned to ISOLATED VERSES to justify your doctrine.
Here’s a complicated lesson in Bible exegesis… see if you can follow this. If verses 1-12 are talking about SALVATION, Verse 13 says something about “no more Jews”, and then Verses 13-26 are STILL talking about salvation…
…and this was in the middle of a 4 chapter discussion of salvation and Jews…
Then hey… news flash… that one isolated verse you yanked out was obviously talking about salvation.
So let’s exegete the BIGGEST offending proof text Post Trib believers use to justify their doctrinal stand, that they are Jews.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:19-29 (KJV)
I’m going to break it down, but skip verse 28. Why? You’ll see why.
19 the law and salvation
20 the law and salvation
21 the law and salvation
22 the law and salvation, sin
23 faith, the law and salvation
24 the law and salvation
25 faith, the law and salvation
26 adoption by faith
27 adoption, faith, the law and salvation
29 adoption, faith, the law and salvation
Okay, what’s the thread, the discussion, the topic? Why, law and salvation. Faith and adoptionism is brought into play as we get to verses 23-29.
What’s in the middle of that? “Gentile Christians replace the Jews.”
Uh… it makes no sense. It doesn’t fit the flow. THE ENTIRE TOPIC THREAD OF GALATIANS IS THE LAW AND SALVATION! And to contrast why that is wrong, Galatians repeatedly appeals to faith and to adoptionism. You WERE sinners, you WERE gentiles but now are BROUGHT INTO Israel as a wild grafted vine.
This ties in to the discussion of Gentiles and Jews in Romans. If you’re going to derive doctrine, you have to compare everything the Bible says on a topic to get your doctrine. So, if you’re trying to create doctrine about “does the ‘Church’ replace Israel?” You’ve got to turn to Romans 9-13.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 1:16 (KJV)
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. Romans 10:12 (KJV)
So if the “church” replaces Israel…. …. …. I’ll take you through this thought slowly… what are you going to do with Romans 1:16? “to everyone that believeth, to the Jew first…”
“…and also to the Greek.”
Um. That demolishes Replacement theology utterly.
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. Romans 11:1-5 (KJV)
This verse demolishes Replacement theology utterly.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: Romans 11:11-13 (KJV)
Right after that, Paul makes a distinction between Israel and Gentiles.
So, again I’ll take you through this slowly… If the “Church” replaces Israel, then why does Paul make the phrase “Jew” and “Israel” synonymous, and the words “Greek” or “Gentiles” Antonymous? in other words, the polar opposite?
It takes two minutes to completely refute Replacement theology, because the Post-Trib believer has absolutely no scriptural basis for this belief, merely proof texts to justify their position.
so, what do Post- Tribbers believe?
the “church” goes through the tribulation, and is raptured at the end of the Tribulation.
Pre-Trib belivers call this the “yo-yo” position, because somehow, Christians are raptured, go immediately through a separate judgment of all Christians, marriage supper of the lamb in heaven, and return to the earth only seconds later.
“Here, eat this Matzoh!” “I thought the marriage supper of the lamb would be longer, less hurried and more enjoyable! And… more food…” “no time for that, chew on the matzoh while we land in Jerusalem! Hurry! Oh, take this crown… good job, by the way.” “lord, let me give this crown back!” “no time for that, hurry up!”
It makes no sense.
It’s also very unBiblical, as the Marriage supper of the lamb takes place in Revelation 19:1-9…
And then the LORD and His Christians go to earth in verse 11.
I don’t know about you, but in first grade, I was taught 9 comes BEFORE 11. So if the door opens in verse 11, and the armies leave in verse 14… I don;t know about you, but my teacher taught me that 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 comes BEFORE 11 and 14!
Apparently, Post- Trib believers don’t use the same math we do. Verses 11-14 come first in their bibles, and apparently verses 1-10 come AFTER that.
I just checked my King James, and 1-10 do indeed come BEFORE 11-14.
Go get your Bible and check. I think yours should be the same.
If I had a lot of money, I’d offer to buy a whole bunch of King James bibles and offer to swap out whatever defectively printed Bibles post trib believers are reading.
If any of you are wealthy, help me out, and offer to do just that.
The Bible calls the Rapture the blessed hope.
How is it the Blessed hope if 75% of Christians will never survive to see it?
But Post-trib teachers have to minimize the Bible in order to justify their beliefs.
Look, it’s very simple. I hear it all the time, “The first three and a half years of the Tribulation are not too bad, pretty peaceful… and the last 3 1/2 years are hell on earth.”
That’s from Pre-trib believers.
I’ve come to the conclusion if you teach that, you’ve never read Revelation. The second seal is War. The Third seal is famine. The fourth seal is pestilence, The 5th seal is earthquakes. The 6th seal is death of Christian and Jewish martyrs. Unlike other religions, when we say “martyrs” there’s a passive connotation. Christians have never blown themselves up or flown airplanes into buildings.
By the end of the 6th seal, most Christians are dead. Over 1.4 billion people die in a single Seal judgment. We’re talking a cataclysmic event. 1.4 Billion people! That’s not counting how many die in war. There are earthquakes, devastating earthquakes. Remember the first “planet swarm” earthquake? That’s the “christmas tsunami” a few years back.
Millions will die in the earthquake. Hundreds of thousands die from famine. Thousands die in pandemics. And not to mention the spread of bacteria from massive amounts of dead bodies, over a billion and a half of them. It takes days to bury a thousand people dead from a catastrophe. I cannot imagine the time it will take to bury a billion.
It’s very probable that the death toll from the first seven seals will be two billion people.
Is that bad? Uh. yeah…. that’s one third of the planet. It’s the equivalent of everyone in India and China dying all at once.
“The first three and a half years of the Tribulation are not too bad, pretty peaceful…”
If that’s your definition of “not too bad…” I’d hate to see your definition of “horrific”. The first two years of the Tribulation sound like a nightmare to me.
And you believe Christians have to go through that?
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:18 (KJV)
I’m not seeing that, how if you tell me reassuringly, “Odds are very good you’ll die a horrific death if you survive world war, famine, plague,and worldwide earthquakes. You’ll be starving, cold, sick, probably gravely injured as they drag you out into the streets and shoot you. Or maybe you’ll have to get strapped into the guillotine and be beheaded. Don’t worry. Nothing to lose your head over. Bye!”
I’ve listed many, many arguments in other blog posts FOR the pre-trib rapture. I’ve demolished the arguments for mid trib and post trib. I’m going to leave you with this…
I’m going to rob you of your only proof text.
Who is Matthew 24 speaking to?
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew 24:24 (KJV)
4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. Isaiah 45:4 (KJV)
Who is this talking to?
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Matthew 24:16 (KJV)
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. Luke 21:20-22 (KJV)
not a word about Rome. Nary a word about any of the kingdoms of the Gentiles. Israel. Jerusalem.
Matthew 24 is speaking to Jews.
I just took your only proof text away from you.
Oh, and what you say is the post-trib rapture?
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Mark 13:27 (KJV)
Doesn’t it say “heaven”? Then obviously, this is not the Rapture, is it? The Rapture is the bringing TO heaven… Matthew 24 and Mark 13 are speaking about collecting those IN heaven!
Okay, without resorting to Matthew 24 or Mark 13, or Galatians 3:28… go ahead and prove a post-trib rapture from the Bible. Not from human reasoning, but from the Bible.
Good luck! You can’t. It’s not possible,