AS I previously mentioned over the last couple of days, Messianic Judaism has every form of heresy about the deity of Christ, functioning almost entirely as a catalogue of Christological heresy. It ranges from Modalism, to “Jesus is messiah but not God” to aberrant extremist Sacred Name-ism.
IT’s almost amazing to see it.
Furthermore, the more “Torah Observent” the church is, the more divergent the Christ denying. It doesn’t make a difference how bad the denial is (unless we’re trying to determine the extent of punishment one receives in Hell, which we have absolutely no way of knowing), the situation remains
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24 (KJV)
Let’s deal first with the human Messiah mythos. This is among the more common, as one gets deeper into the Torah movement. Again, I point out that from a Jewish standpoint, precious few of these Messianics who advocate mandatory Torah Observance for salvation (or even just mandatory Torah observance, period) even come close to a level in which one would say they were Torah observant. So by their own mouths are they condemned – and you better believe, unless they get saved, every breaking of the Sabbath will be brought up at the Great White Throne judgment, every eating of non-kosher foods, etc.
I strongly recommend, plead, beg you to get truly and Biblically saved.
Returning to the subject, the standard objection basically boils down to, “The Jews are expecting a human Messiah, and we want the Jews to like us, so we agree.” Reality check – you’re mentioning the name of Jesus (in whatever aberrant form you advocate) and the Jews are not going to accept you because of it. And furthermore, they’re going to laugh at your Torah arguments, and tell you that “well, you’re not keeping Torah anyway!” and if you’re Gentiles, they’re going to get a little annoyed and tell you “The Torah is not for you.” And then they’re going to tell you about the seven noachide laws you’ve already learned about and don’t need me to repeat.
So, if that’s the basis of your argument (and I’m sure although it made several of you angry, that’s what it boils down to, because from what I’ve seen on your websites and blogs, that’s an argument you quote!), then best re-think it.
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Matthew 16:16 (KJV)
63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. Matthew 26:63 (KJV)
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. Luke 2:11 (KJV)
41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ. Luke 4:41 (KJV)
42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world. John 4:42 (KJV)
26 But, lo, he speaketh boldly, and they say nothing unto him. Do the rulers know indeed that this is the very Christ? John 7:26 (KJV)
27 Howbeit we know this man whence he is: but when Christ cometh, no man knoweth whence he is. John 7:27 (KJV)
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world. John 11:27 (KJV)
What is plain from a cursory reading of the New Testament is this – the Pharisees did not believe that the Messiah would be the Son of God. However, the common people aligned themselves with the Sadducees, and the Sadducees obviously did believe that, as evidenced by the words of Caiaphas in Matthew 26:63. The common people believed it, as evidenced by Matthew 16:16, John 4:41-42, 7:26-27 & 11:27.
So the denial of the Messiah as divine was a Pharisaic invention, but not wholeheartedly, as I seem to recall some verses from the Talmud which suggest that the Rabbis themselves were divided on that point. I’d quote them, but I threw away my CD-Rom of the Talmud when I left Judaism, and lack the $300 to buy another.
Of course, if I suddenly got $300 unexpectedly, I’d probably spend it on Christian software anyway.
Resuming the discussion, we see major problems now with the man-pleaser argument that Jesus is Messiah, but not the Son of God. First, the New Testament says otherwise. Next, the New Testament says otherwise. Third, the Old Testament says otherwise. Fourth, there’s the witnesses of millions of people who have read the Gospels and come to believe. Tell me, from a cursory reading of the Gospels from the King James Bible, do you agree that the text is telling you plainly, very plainly, Jesus Christ is God, the second person of the Trinity? Millions of people, just from reading the Gospel of John, have come to agree just that.
Listen, if all you do is read the Gospel of John once, and are convicted of sin, and get on your knees and say, “Lord Jesus, please forgive my sins! Save me!”, you’ve borne testimony that A). Jesus Christ is the saviour of all men, B). He is God, and C). that you’ve repented of your sins and D). That you understand only Christ can save you.
That’s enough right there to get you into heaven. However, the Torah Observant Messianics seem to know so much better than you, me, and the bible, and they’re quick to answer it with fallacious arguments.
“How can God possibly die?”
Easy. Death does not occur to the spirit, only the flesh. For God to die, He has to take a human body.
“Why would God die, if He could possibly die?”
Easier. He requires propitiation, the satisfaction of a debt. We cannot pay it. He required us to keep the Law perfectly, which we cannot do. So He did it for us. And since only God can perfectly keep the law, He came in human flesh to do just that.
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
“The Messiah must be a man!”
Correct. Jesus Christ is fully God, and Fully man. This is what we call the hypostatic Union.
“You cannot logically explain the Trinity.”
Nu, and you can explain God??? The Bible says that the Holy Ghost is God. The Bible says Jesus Christ is God. The Bible says God the father is God. So, you’re so much smarter than the Bible??? Who made you God???
“The word Trinity cannot be found in the Bible.”
And??? The word Bible cannot be found in the Bible. But the concept of the Trinity can easily be found in the Bible.
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 1 John 5:6-9 (KJV)
That’s not the only verse. THere’s others. Do yourself a favor and look them up. Because forever is a long, long time to be wrong.
Listen, every cult makes it a point to deny the Trinity, and to disparage the Cross. Messianic Judaism is no exception! Indeed, Messianics who try to debate Jehovah’s witnesses find themselves agreeing more than disagreeing, bogging down on simple little things like, “Well, why don’t you guys keep the feasts, then?” “Uh, we keep Passover…” “Oh, you guys are lame!”
That’s really bad, when Messianics are disparaging a major cult like the JW’s for not being legalistic enough.
Again, I point out one major issue – If these Messianics had kept reading a King James Bible instead of turning to Stern’s heretical Jewish New Testament or Complete Jewish Bible, they’d never have denied Christ. It’s good that it exposed they were never really saved to begin with! But in the meantime, you urgently need to get saved.
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:10-13 (KJV)
If you do not believe Christ is God, ye hath not life. And forever is a long, long time to be wrong.
Repent. Get a King James Bible and study this issue out. I’ve already cited enough proof that Stern’s, Trimm’s and Goble’s translations are all heretical. And on my pages on the King James Bible, I’ve already shown that the Greek texts used to make the new mis-translations are flawed and heretical. If you need to research that issue, look down on the right hand side of this page, and choose the King James Bible Version topics to research that. I’ve got a lot of pages and proofs on it.
Once you have a good King James Bible, study the Trinity and the deity of Christ, and you’ll see quickly that you are in error, to the peril of your soul.