The Pre-Trib Rapture 10 – Margaret McDonald


Okay, let’s get this out of the way.

just about every mid-trib, post trib or no-trib website always brings up Margaret McDonald.

Okay, let’s get that out of the way.

We’re constantly pointing out that there is nobody alive convinced of the rapture because of Margaret McDonald. Todd Strandberg did an article a few years back, about how he finally searched for this legendary girl who claims to have had a mystic vision in which, for the first time, someone saw a pre-trib rapture.

Huh.

Okay, research here is the key. Todd Strandberg reports it almost was a “Where’s Waldo?” search, except that in the “Where’s Waldo” puzzles, he’s always right there where you can see him. In this case, it’s clear NONE of these anti-Rapture advocates have EVER researched the claim. Or, extremely embarrassed, they’d have withdrawn the claim.

For starters, her “Vision” is post-trib.

“uhhhh… wait, I’d always heard she saw a pre-trib rapture.”

Nope.

So, you guys have made SO MUCH about her vision – and you NEVER EVEN READ IT! What amazes me is that Roman Catholic apologists always make snide remarks about a vision… but if she’d been a Roman Catholic, and the Virgin Mary had been central in it, there’d be pilgrimages, flowers, rosary beads, candles and incense offered at the place of MacDonald’s birth! Look, if your religion thrives on visions, attacking a straw man of visions is ill advised. Glass houses, stones, all that.

What’s the vision?

“I saw the people of God in an awfully dangerous situation. Now will the wicked one be revealed with all power…It will be a fiery trial…Nothing but what is of God will stand…I said, Now shall the awful sight of a false Christ be seen on this earth; and nothing but Christ in US can detect this awful attempt of the enemy to deceive…This is the trial through which those are to pass, who will be counted worthy to stand before the Son of Man…The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It is by being filled with the Spirit that we shall be kept. I frequently said, Oh be filled with the Spirit – have the light of God within you, that you may DETECT satan…”

Um… this is post trib. That’s consistent with the teachings of the Irvingites, whom MacDonald belonged to. So, her prophecy was play-acting, to make her seem important – she’d learned their doctrine well, and to have her seeing a mystic vision that confirmed the teachings of the group was seized on. Amazingly, it reminds me of Seventh Day Adventism and Ellen G. White’s odd visions, that changed with the wind.

How can I say it’s post trib??? Well, the Irvingites were post trib. And MacDonald mentions the Antichrist, released in the first Seal – which is during the tribulation. “The trial of the church is from Antichrist… this is the trial through which those are to pass…”

Um… if the churchES are to be tried by the antichrist, well then, that places the rapture AFTER the Antichrist is done – which is at Christ’s second coming!

So… maybe Pre-Trib believers should be turning that around to attack post-tribbers, claiming “You all got it from the visions of a Scottish girl!” See how they like having to defend it!

There. Aren’t you post-tribbers embarrassed??? You made ALL THIS NOISE about MacDonald, viciously attacking that straw man argument… only to find out SHE SUPPORTS YOU, NOT PRE-TRIB BELIEVERS!

Hah!

Next, we fail to see any quote from the person they say was the first advocate of the Pre-trib rapture, John Darby. Darby did advocate a pre-trib Rapture – but he tells how he was able to figure that out. It occurred to him as he studied the Bible that there was a difference between the churches and Israel. Once he’d understood that, it took little work to read through Revelation and see that suddenly the churches disappear from the earth, and God is working through Israel again. So, if there’s a difference between the churches and Israel, and Revelation starts out talking to the churches, then suddenly switches to Israel, and the churches cannot be found again until the end of Revelation – that means the BIBLE IS CLEARLY TEACHING THAT THE CHURCHES GO SOMEWHERE ELSE DURING ALMOST ALL OF REVELATION!

Sorry, don’t mean to shout, but the post-tribbers aren’t listening.

So, was Darby the first teacher of the Rapture?

Nope. A Southern Baptist preacher, who also agreed that MacDonald’s vision was post trib, first offered $500 for anyone who could offer proof of a pre trib rapture prior to 1830. He had to retract his offer when he found the writings of Emmanuel Lacunza. Lacunza taught it back in 1812. So the Baptist pastor, John Bray, offered the prize again, but this time before 1812.

He lost the money when someone gave him proofs of a book from 1744 published in England that taught a pre-trib rapture.

Well, what about this quote from before the year 370?

“For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overtake the world because of our sins.”

Ephraem of Nisibis wrote that, an early Christian writer of the Syrian Christians.

That’s.. a long time ago. It’s clearly pre-trib. Its clearly before the year 400. It’s an early Christian writer. And Juistin Martyr apparently was pre-trib as well, placing the teaching as far back as prior to AD 100.

Huh.

Looks like the church was ALWAYS pre-trib, and that abandoning this belief was moving from the previously held position – apostasy.

Looks like you post-tribbers have some explaining to do.

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Author: philipdean2013

Seminary graduate with a Ba. in Theology/Pastoral Studies, Happily married, Independent Baptist. I can't keep silent about what I see going on in Christianity any longer! Apostasy reigns around us, churches are sliding into worldiness, a whitewashed Gospel is preached everywhere... "Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein. Jeremiah 6:16 (KJV) So, I'm speaking out. ...Why aren't you???

8 thoughts on “The Pre-Trib Rapture 10 – Margaret McDonald”

  1. Margaret McDonald is a mute point. It doesn’t matter how long ago people started believing doctrines of demons.

    The pretrib foundation comes from Paul’s writings,because Paul addressed the gentiles. Paul addressed the gentiles and as a result the idea for separation comes from these writings. Without them any attempt to separate the rapture from the second coming would be a inconceivable

    Peter who traveled with Paul also wrote on this matter. Yet his writings speak of the second coming and cannot be considered rapture. He addresses Paul’s teachings in light of the end times… 2 Peter 3:10-16 and specifically mentions them. He tells us that people use Paul’s teachings to twist the Scriptures as they always do… NKJV.

    So you see the pre-trib idea is not new at all. You are very correct.

    What I want to know is why the pretribbers are so content to call Jesus a liar in the nature in which He declared how He would return for His second coming, “Like a thief…” All of the element of surprise verses are second coming in nature… Matt. 24:35,36, Rev. 16:15, 2 Peter 3:10, yet a rapture 7 years prior would announce the second coming eliminating the element of surprise, thus making Jesus into a liar. Why are you so content on calling Jesus a liar?

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    1. First I think you’re making some erroneous assertions here. How can I POSSIBLY be calling Jesus Christ a liar, when I advocate a pre-trib rapture? Can you tell me how, if I advocate a Pre-trib rapture – I am telling you the exact moment Christ comes for His people? Your assertion is backwards, actually.
      I can tell you now what I got for my birthday 7 years ago. I cannot tell you what I would get 7 years PRIOR to it!
      ONLY the Pre-trib believers are safe from calling the Lord “A Liar” as you claim. Mid trib and post trib I can tell you when Christ will return for the Rapture.
      But if I tell you Christ comes for us BEFORE the tribulation… can you please tel me exactly what day, hour and minute Jesus Christ will return for His believers?
      AS for the second coming, you’re ignoring all of the verses I’ve already cited that show these are two separate events. Jesus comes FOR His faithful at the Rapture, He comes WITH His saints at the second coming. His feet do not touch the ground at the Rapture, but His feet land on the Mount of Olives at the Second Coming. Nobody is killed at the Rapture, but the enemies of Christ are slain at the Second Coming. You’re taking EVERYTHING out of context in the manner you cite.
      If the Rapture is pre-trib, I can tell you exactly when the Second Coming will be. But if I’m pre-trib, I cannot tell you when the Rapture will be. So, isn’t it actually the Post-Trib that are calling Jesus Christ a “liar” as you say.
      As for doctrines of Demons, I believe the Bible. I’d be careful about calling anything that is the plain belief in the Bible the “doctrine of Demons”. I’d carefully suggest you read ALL of the pages in the series on the Rapture, as you’ll see I’m arguing for a strictly literal arguing of Scripture, as opposed to post-trib, who often are allegorizing the Bible.
      I’d also recommend you avoid the New King James, and read the pages on the Bible Controversy and the King James Bible.
      Your error is that you do not believe the Bible literally, and thus, you’re uninformed as to the facts. I suggest some study on this.

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    2. Okay, brother, here it is… you keep coming to my blog and are trying to use it as a forum for your erroneous doctrine. I thought you told me last month you were breaking things off because “I wasn’t teachable???”
      Listen… it’s my blog. you came here. you have your OWN blog you can put things on, and as I’ve pointed out, you haven’t written in your own blog for two years.
      As for coming here and teaching me, this blog is for people who are interested in God’s word, and taking it literally. You, sir, do NOT take it literally, or you would be pre-trib. You end up having to spiritualize several verses, or else say “Well, it’s not talking about that…” when it clearly is.
      I’ve answered all your points LONG before you even came on. You’ve called me a liar over and over again, especially when all I’m doing is quoting God’s word in response. I’d be VERY careful about that.
      as for your latest request that I will have to explain myself – brother, it’s my blog. I do not have to account to you for anything.
      I HAVE explained my position, time and time again, in multiple pages you STILL have not read despite my insistance you do so before you proceeded.
      So here it is… my final word on it. This is my blog, for me to write and teach those who wish to learn.
      You are interested in repeating yourself and not answering any of the ponits I raise.
      I suggest you go do that on your own blog. Because I will NOT provide my blog as a forum for you to air your doctrinal errors.
      Because I will not answer any more of your comments, as per my oft-repeated comment policy. They will not go through any longer. I will not answer them any longer.

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      1. The thing that intrigues me about some of these commenters, as that they seem to have no followers of their own. Yet they feel compelled to set us straight. Go figure. Some kind of delusion.

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      2. hence my comment about them trying to borrow what few readers I have, and use MY blog as a forum! I wish him well on his, although I note someone commented on his blog he seems to be a very angry fellow.

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